We are listening to the basketball people
We strongly encourage to read this interesting dialogue beetwen representants of the biggest two basketball bodies FIBA and Euroleague – Lubo Kotleba and Costas Rigas.
Marta Seweryn: For the third time in Poland, again lot of campers, many new faces, some repeats. Camp is progressing. Has already it’s level. What is your feeling about it, Lubo?
Lubo Kotleba: I think camp already established it’s reputation all around the world and what was very incredible for me, that when I was looking for the old pictures, I found couple of guys, who from not known faces suddenly two of them go to Olympic in Beijing. So it means this camp gives a really good base for those who want to improve. This year I saw so many countries coming, and when I spoke with Kuba before, he said he had even more requests to come but there is no more place so, it means camp is established and it is suddenly counting as the most reputed camp for referees in Europe.
Costas, tell us your impressions from this edition?
Costas Rigas: The only I can add to what Lubo said, is not only countries, but continents. I found many people coming from far East, Australia… and this is success of the camp. Of course I saw progress in quality from last year when I met these guys, also new ones are very potential for the future.
What would you say about level of games, was it appropriate for the camp?
C.R. What I saw, because I was only at late games: six and eight o’clock in the afternoon, it is a very good level and for camp like this it is number one in Europe. Wherever I went it was not the same quality as it was here. You had here men’s U20. It is very rare to find, when young referees are going to learn basketball! So level of basketball was excellent to test referees, to make them train and also to give some advices, and I think in three days they improve a lot.
Have you seen any potential referee here?
L.K. I didn’t see all of them, but from those I have seen of course very many of them can be in the future good national referees. I am not saying only national license. They can be international referees also, but first they can be very strong national referees. Of course to be strong international referee you need a lot, but from those I have seen, I don’t remember the names good. There was this tall, thin guy from Poland and another one I saw, definitely the Czech guy, very potential from what I have seen.
Campers told me they enjoy the camp a lot, it’s idea, FIBA and Euroleague referees. They want to know, if there will be more camps like this besides Kuba’s camp?
C.R. It is quite hard to organize a camp, but anyway we have one camp every year (red. in Euroleague) organized in Benetton. We are training some of our referees on the list, but also new comers from proposal from FIBA EUROPE to incorporate in our list. So we have already one camp working in summer, but not similar to these working in Europe, like this in Poland or Alan’s Richardson camp. But it is a good idea to have camp like this.

What do you think about the idea of devices which we use here to communication between referee and instructor?
L.K. Ok. I didn’t experience it before and I didn’t experienced now. It works here so I can not answer you this question how it works and what it would be for. Costas do you know how is works?
C.R. Yes, because I used to be familiar with this in Alan’s camp four years ago. So I know they have internal communication between the supervisor or instructor and referee. Ok. Referees were campers and the national referees sometimes pay attention to the supervisor who is talking to the earphone instead of looking for the game, so I am not totally convinced that this is a good idea, but for sure camps are proper place to check it.
What I see here and it is great, how good two strongest basketball bodies cooperate with each other, FIBA and Euroleague presenting the same philosophy?
C.R. I must say that, ok, Lubo is on the top of pyramid because he has big experience, is going everywhere in the world, even in small countries, so is super experienced and also is studying the rules. Lubo is rule maker, so the only I could say from all time as active referees until today, we are in the same way, the same philosophy and I think we are a good couple in the meaning of the philosophy of the spirit of the game, of the feeling of the game – basketball. This is I think the most important because only with the feeling and the spirit you can be superior referee otherwise medium or other referees.. we have plenty of them.
L.K. You know. The group of the lecturers always should be composed of, how to say, theoretician and practitians, because practical work with the referees, and I am always saying, I have never officiate the game with three men mechanic, so there for me it is little awkward to talk about three person officiating because it is not my blood. The combination of these people here is excellent, is good always. I strongly support it for the future that you have also one active referee with reputation, which brings good image and that person can always delivered good message because I am not saying we are bad, but we are slowly to be forgotten. At the camp, campers they must see somebody who for them is the present hero. So whoever will be coming next time must be the star of Euroleague or World basketball. Of course I have one advantage as a lecturer. I have the access to very many materials, because this is my profession, that is what I am paid for, whereas Costas, let’s say, is also professional, but he doesn’t have that deep possibility to go and listen to many lectures. I can listen to very many other lecturers, and I can learn also from the others, what they do, how they teach, this is my advantage, and with the rules, friendly speaking, when I was a referee, I was not very good in the rules, and even when I came to FIBA, hehe, how to say, I was able not to pass the test almost always, but because Costas said and I am saying this is my profession. By doing your profession 19 years whether you want or not, you learn something, so by time I develop to be a person who really understand the rules, and still in combination with feeling for the game I think I can deliver good lessons also on rules despite of the fact that this I am obsessed with.

Costas, how in your opinion new rules approved by FIBA for 2010 will affect the game?
C.R. The rules are in a right way. Ok. I am a member, observer in the FIBA World Technical Commission. I am very happy, I like to appreciate FIBA selected me last year. I was very lucky to attend one of the meeting of FIBA Commission, where these rules were proposed to the Central Board of FIBA. All of them and mainly laws which will be affective as of 2010 are in my opinion revolution for the future of basketball in FIBA. There are the same principle of course according to change the rules and it was about time to make some changes. Changes of this year are not major, but from 2010 I think the game probably will have big change on the strategy of coaches, on the player adjustment on the new rules, new part of the basketball. I think it will be very good and very profitable for our sport. What is different from other sport like football which is the most popular now all over the world, because they have the same rules everywhere, with the same dimensions, the same rules offside, fouls, yellow, red cards, whatever, so then have exactly the same rules everywhere and this is the difference. Because we have different rules in the different parts of the world. We are concentrating, mainly we are focused on out organization which is FIBA and I think now FIBA is making the rules more attractive for the basketball. I am sure it is in the right way.
L.K. I have to add that Costas became a member of FIBA Technical Commission, it is not a problem to be a member – at the end you have your name on the visit card. I am saying that you are a member, but is good Costas is active member and whenever we need a consultation or advice to the members to the technical of the technical commission asking for the opinion, Costas always gives his opinion whatever the opinion is. I don’t like somebody saying always “yes” and agree with everything, the progress is made only in conflict of various opinions. That’s first and second, Costas is correct that football has one set of the game rules. On the other hand we are not favor in the position that we have NBA – is very strong player in basketball. NBA must be respected. NBA makes enormous good for basketball promoting basketball worldwide. It doesn’t cost us anything and promotion is very expensive issue. Friendly speaking they are the best promotion machine in the world (for basketball), on the other hand we wanted them to lead in our structure. I am not saying it was a written agreement that we can play the same rules as they have. Of course we had to set priorities, what is the price to get them in the body, we have find out. Is good player to participate, is good that they are part of FIBA. We allowed them to play with their own rules as they play, as they played since NBA exist. I am positive that we set that time if they have to switch to FIBA rules immediately they will not accept, so this was the compromise. Now by years passing by we are trying to learn from each other, NBA from FIBA, FIBA from NBA, what could be the best side of the rule which fits to them and fits to us. Rules are getting closer and closer but the problem is not only NBA. In USA you have six different sets of rules!! So USA people are saying: FIBA you should do something. We are telling them: Ok, but first play with one set of the rules in USA and then probably we will have only one. To finish with, we are ready to try to have one set of the rules worldwide. As it is in football, but it is difficult. Not only basketball, hockey is also having different rules that International Hockey Federation, which is also a compromise, so this is price we pay, but we think that the price is not that big, that we can not progress worldwide with the rules and with having NBA with us.
C.R. I can tell you something. I was in NBA in the meeting of referees. Believe me, referees from NBA loves some of our rules. Believe me, and they would like to have some of our rules. We want to have some of their rules. If finally the two organizations find the compromise always to come together and to have worldwide the same rules it will be perfect. This is I think a wish of all basketball fans.
Lubo, what was the purpose of accepting new rules? Is it not too much mess from technical point of view, changing every gym, lines, circle, new devices to measure time. Do you think it will work good?
L.K. Ok. Look. This issue of moving three point line is in the air maybe ten years! Every time we are saying this is impossible, because you have to change so many courts. At the end we said: shall we continue this discussion for another twenty years… Or we will say: ok, let’s finish and let’s do something. You can not only talk and talk and talk. After you have the same argument: we can not change it because it costs. So you have to decide, and it is not only in basketball life, if in Germany or worldwide they decide that cars must be different because they are producing a lot of combustion, whether the car makers like it or not, they have to change cars and it also costs a lot. So we decided, yes we will do it in 2010. We are giving everybody two years to mentally, financially prepared for that. But at the end, ok, there will be costs, that is for sure. If you have so many open-air courts you simply need to refresh them from time to time, because you can not keep the court not maintained. So they will certainly plan to have good maintenance before the season 2010/2011. Courts which are taped it is easy an those whish are good quality painted courts, so they know they will not put that much money in maintenance 2009/2010 and they will sell this costs to refurbish completely the floor for 2010/2011. Anyhow they have to invest. We have the story with the smaller ball for women, ok. I think it was right move and women basketball was improved because of this. But ok. The decision was taken and people were saying: now, you know, who will but so many small balls.. So far you had 100 balls for boys and girls, so you but 60 boys and 40 girls. This is not a cost you throw out of the window, you will profit from that. I think it will not be that dramatic costs for owners of the gyms. Once they have to make the maintenance they will do it in proper time.
Costas, how do you think players and coaches will react for the new rules?
C.R. It is only a matter of one month, maybe less. They are already prepared, because FIBA has sended press release to everyone. Now with the new technology everyone knows how the rules will be from this September or from 2010. Now they are prepared even for 2010. Anyway it is a matter of a very short time to adjust the rules. There is no problem, that is happening every time when some rules are changed. There is no problem. This is the way FIBA is working many years and it is excellent for basketball, because we are progressing according to the progress of the basketball. This is something that we must aware FIBA to our organization.

Once you had circle under the basket in Euroleague. Was it not working back then?
C.R. No, no. Absolutely no. It was four years ago when we discussed many times with coaches about the rule. It works for NBA a lot of years ago and we found out that is very good for the basketball, for offensive players, for talented players, and to discourage defensive player not to attempt for cheap foul under the basket. There is not a good position to play defense. Anyway all we agree, it is good for the basket and that was why we put it that time and it worked perfect. I would say it was only matter of one month for referees, coaches and players to adapt the rule and everything was fine. Of course after the sign agreement between FIBA and ULEB who had to play according the conditions of FIBA rules. In FIBA there was not this rule back then, so we had to change it according to FIBA rules. This is what is happening now, we are very happy. I must tell you that is was a great help from general secretary of FIBA, Mr. Baumann and Lubo to help in this aspect and to have this rule again from 2010.
You didn’t change the rule about unsportsmanlike foul, you just changed the interpretation for this making it more strict. Does it mean you want to make a game less violent?
L.K. You are correct that this is actually not a change. It is clarifying one special situation on the court where referees were having not unified criteria and Costas said it already: We are listening to the basketball people what they think should help the game. We were under the pressure saying that we should do something where the player can clearly score, is fouled and it is not very clear for the referees what to do in the situation. We practically add one sentence, one statement which originally comes with a little advance from NBA. This is again some king of proof that we are trying to get rules together and that we will give a clean to the basket, if there any type of contact that should be called as an unsportsmanlike foul. As Costas said: Any rule whish is coming new look dramatically difficult to officiate. This statement which we added will be probably most difficult to call consistently worldwide. I would say that it will discourage this players who are simply trying to stop the fast break and this is not good, because if you stop the fast break you have two free throws plus the possession if it is unsportsmanlike. We are loosing the time. Free throws, unless is the end of the game and close score, are boring part of the game. We do hope with this change we will have less unsportsmanlike fouls. Players will not foul to stop the player, because they know it is 2 plus possession, so instead of that they will simply let the player go and to score. Intention of the rule is to clean up the game and to have even less fouls called!
If rules are going more close to NBA rules, does it mean soon we will see for example traveling like there?
L.K. I do not agree, because the way they move the ball in NBA is exactly the same that we do, but they read the rulebook different. They allow to start a dribble when they are moving for additional step, what we do not allow. We read rules differently. On the other hand when they are standing still and they start dribble here, really they are very strict on how to move pivot foot. So therefore we are certain different in reading the rule book and traveling rule is one of the main concern of FIBA. We have said that this year we will try to have a meeting of some kind of a rule committee within the Technical Committee. We will probably do it in Beijing, because we will have also representatives from NBA who are responsible for officiating. We will try to find out how they should read the rule book and how we should read the rule book. If necessary even to change the wording. I don’t think we will call more travel as we call it now, because there is practically no change in wording of traveling rule. I don’t think there will be different calling travel, at least in this season.

Costas, does it also mean that Euroleague is trying to became more and more like NBA making more show then basketball?
C.R. I can not say this, because our basketball is completely different from NBA. I would say that our players are very passionate with the basketball and the wins and looses. So if you see team losing a gem, even when you see them crying, sometimes they are exaggerated by referees or final result. And this never happen or very rare happen to NBA, because that is not feeling the win or loose. This is something that can not change in our competitions, also for our fans. They are going to see their teams to win which is very, very good, because they are becoming very fanatic about the win. So if they are loosing they try to find some victims, some responsible. And always is of course our referees. I can say that we are taking something from NBA which can be adopted in our competitions very good, like ex. sits in the court. Of course we have some other habits of NBA like cheerleaders now in Europe but is doesn’t mean that we are going completely to NBA. They have hamburgers, popcorns, it doesn’t fit for European fans and it never will be similar in our competition.
L.K. Costas is saying you should not see basketball like NBA in Europe. You have to see it in context of culture. It is not only sport, it is generally the living style, culture. Everything in United States is quite different to Europe and that have very strong influence on basketball as well. In NBA as it is American style of life, the society is star orientated, in Europe we are teams, different nations, Polish are Polish, Slovaks are Slovaks, and Greeks are Greeks. Still certain type of playing the team, unity, our basketball is still team orientated. Therefore we are in last years having a success of playing USA teams. Of course Costas says, if there is something we can learn and adapt from NBA why shouldn’t we do so. They are enormous experienced, specially in promotion, in business orientated issues of basketball, far ahead of us. They have tradition whereas we still have good school. We are producing in worldwide enormous number of good players, you can see how much of them is recently put to NBA. That is very good and that is nothing wrong that we do something that they do, and we feel it is good for us. It is fine.
C.R. We are coming after NBA on the professionalism, because they were professional before us, and now we are becoming professionals. We are learning. In the last meeting general board of Euroleague decided is on the way that NBA is showing us. It makes the capacity. The less capacity of gyms to be ten thousand, is on the NBA traditional rules, and this is showing our way to the future but this is something where it helps professionalism. We are very new in professionalism, and we are learning. Don’t forget only exist 8 years. Eight years is always learning and I suppose now we are putting some NBA regulations because we like it, as it happen in the rules the same happen with conditions. Nothing wrong if we have something from NBA. I absolutely agree and confirm what Lubo said about different culture. This is the problem of our basketball, we have 54 countries in Europe. In Euroleague and ULEB we are 24 countries playing and 15 countries in Euroleague. We have different language, different mentality, different habits. This is something that differentiate us from NBA, but not necessary is bad, ok? Is very good. This is competition between countries. This is good for the profit of basketball.
By Marta Seweryn